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Sen. Cassidy expresses frustration with health officials on COVID-19 guidance

During a hearing of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, Sen. Bill Cassidy, R-La., said he was “incredibly frustrated” by the messaging and guidance on the pandemic from public health experts.

Video Transcript

BILL CASSIDY: Doctors, thank you all for being here. I approach you now kind of as a physician who's done research in vaccines more so than I'm approaching as a senator. I was struck. And by the way, I'm incredibly frustrated. And the American people are frustrated because they hear you're following science. But then they just have a sense that the lag time between the implementation of that and recommendations is far too long.

It's not just the American people. I'll put it this way, not just the people in my state. Here's a stat article. CDC's slow, cautious messaging seems out of step with the moment. I want to go back to the office, not wait on the CDC. That's from "Wall Street Journal." And the liberals who can't quit lockdown from "The Atlantic."

So first, I was struck when Senator Burr suggested that previous immunization actually confers immunity. Do any of you agree with that? Dr. Fauci?

ANTHONY FAUCI: Does previous immunization confirm--

BILL CASSIDY: Does previous infection confer immunity?

ANTHONY FAUCI: It does. We don't know what the durability of it is. But it certainly does confer immunity.

BILL CASSIDY: So but we still recommend that they be vaccinated?

ANTHONY FAUCI: Yeah, we do.

BILL CASSIDY: That seems out of step.

ANTHONY FAUCI: No, actually, Senator, a study has shown very clearly that if you vaccinate someone who has previously gotten infected and recovered, the level of neutralizing antibodies and T cells are extraordinarily high not only against the wildtype virus but also against--

BILL CASSIDY: --bearer of that research. I pulled some of that research. It refers to that.

ANTHONY FAUCI: Right.

BILL CASSIDY: My concern is that that would happen if you had another infection. All the immunization does is mimic a pre-existing infection. That is very well-established with other viruses. No one has not established for this virus. And indeed, some of this research shows that within four days, which is the window period, if you will, for an infection to become an illness, those antibodies rise quite precipitously. But we still recommend that they get two doses, even though the same literature shows that there is an increase in side effects when someone gets a second dose and they've been previously immunized, not life-threatening. But nonetheless, an increase in side effects.

But nowhere do I see a recommendation that, well, don't get the second dose because the literature shows that after one dose, you've topped out your immunological response. And you're at an increased risk with the second dose. Would anybody like to speak to that?

- So there are studies ongoing to look at the first versus second dose. I agree with you. It is a very reasonable proposition for study. But the purpose of immunizing somebody who's been infected previously is to develop higher antibody titers. Those high antibody titers are what is so critical in preventing--

BILL CASSIDY: If I may, again, the studies from other viruses show-- hopefully we have research showing here, but it appears to that a second-- that a re-immunization merely mimics what would happen if somebody were exposed to the virus. All it does is kind of mimic that which would occur.

- Senator, this is a different virus. Each virus is--

BILL CASSIDY: It is a different virus. And Dr. March, is there research going to explore that which I'm referring to? Because the research so far shows that within four days, you get a significant increase in antibody titer.

- There's research that's been done to show that after vaccination, the nature of the immune response gives sufficiently high titer antibodies, that the--

BILL CASSIDY: That's with every virus. That's with every virus. That is not unique to this.

- It's likely superior to natural infection in this case in preventing against some of these variants. And I think that's what Dr. Fauci was getting to.

BILL CASSIDY: And I'll also point out that the vaccines themselves, and presumably the previous infection, is also effective against the variants. By the way, can people go back to work if they've been vaccinated and not wear a mask, assuming they're not immunocompromised?

ROCHELLE WALLENSKY: We have about 1/3 of people in this country who are vaccinated. We have about 1/3 of counties in this country that still have over 100 cases per 100,000. We are working to review our guidance and to update our guidance. We have put out three different guides--

BILL CASSIDY: I'm sorry. Let me just ask again. If I am vaccinated and I have antibody and I'm exposed to somebody else, what is my risk of coming down with symptomatic infection?

ROCHELLE WALLENSKY: 5%.

BILL CASSIDY: 5%, now, that's overall, not if I've been vaccinated and if I have antibody. That's if I'm vaccinated overall, correct?

ROCHELLE WALLENSKY: I don't think we have data on what you're looking at. We do not take antibodies on everybody who was vaccinated.

BILL CASSIDY: But we could.

ROCHELLE WALLENSKY: We absolutely could. But to date, we only have--

BILL CASSIDY: And we do know that if-- if we know the critical mass or if we know that herd immunity is somewhere north of 60% or 70%, if we go into a workplace where, within that workplace, there is 100% immunization, such as here, we've achieved herd immunity.

Yeah, there's somebody in here that may not be responding to the vaccine. But because everybody else has, they're protected. That's nowhere reflected.

And right now, we have federal agencies-- which we've had employees not working for a year because the union says that they have to have special workplace precautions for them to return to work. There is consequence to this kind of delay, that the stat article shows, of the kind of updating of these recommendations. The American people are incredibly frustrated.

And as Senator Collins says, they're beginning to disregard what you say as true. Because so much of what you say is patently not true, I have to wear a mask when I'm outside and the wind's blowing at 20 miles an hour. That's been changed. But it was only changed recently. They seek not to believe those things which are true.

You got to realize you got to be more real time. Let me finish with this. I don't know if was the stat article or "The New York Times" that pointed out in the HIV epidemic, the recommendations were much more kind of calibrated to real life. Listen, we know people are going to do this. If you're going to do it, please accept this recommendation.

This is a blanket. Walk outside and wear a mask. You're vaccinated and everybody else is in the room is vaccinated, but you're wearing a mask. The American people have just lost patience with us. Well, you guys, I just ask you, kind of be aware of their frustration, and get a little real time into updating these things. I'm sorry to be so frustrated. I respect you all. And thank you for your service. I yield back.