2 generations of Black NC residents talk equity, policing, ‘sin of slavery’ and more

Betty Baldwin Geer and Greear Webb are were strangers, separated by 60 years but connected by the fight for racial equity.

They sat down recently — Geer at her home in Chapel Hill and Webb at his college apartment about a mile away — for a virtual conversation about their work for civil rights, better policing and Black lives.

Geer was a student at Chapel Hill’s all-Black Lincoln High School in 1960 when water fountains, bathrooms and most public places were segregated.

“We are first-class citizens, and we shouldn’t have been treated like that,” she said. “But even now, we have people that’s treating us like that.”

Geer and her girlfriends were inspired to join the Civil Rights Movement when the Chapel Hill Nine, a group of young Black men, launched a sit-in after being refused a seat inside a segregated drugstore on Franklin Street.

In 1962, as an N.C. A&T college student in Greensboro, she and hundreds of other students were arrested while picketing a segregated movie theater. They were jailed at nearby farms until their case was later thrown out, she said.

“I got locked up twice (because) I was back doing the same thing,” Geer said. “I even went home, and this time, I packed a little makeup case, so I had my toothbrush and everything in there with me.”

Geer’s generation inspires him, Webb said.

The Sanderson High School graduate felt a “righteous anger” in 2018 when 17 people were shot at a Parkland high school, he said. In response, he helped organize a town hall on gun violence at his Wake County school and a related nonprofit.

Growing up with a Black father and white mother, and a grandmother who grew up on a former slave plantation near Albany, Georgia, gave him “a very unique world view,” Webb said, and a desire to tackle the racial divide in North Carolina.

Last summer, he got involved in Black Lives Matter, helping to lead downtown Raleigh protests and calls to reimagine policing after George Floyd, Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery were killed.

“We really need to understand that this country has a troubled history, and our original sin of slavery is still evident today,” Webb said.

Here are excerpts from the conversation:

Q: How did your family and friends react to the protests?

Geer: First of all, if you were going to march, you had to let your parents know what you were going to do. My father didn’t say anything. He just said, “Just be careful” ... or he said, “I saw you on television.” It was OK with him. My mother was probably afraid for us. I was trying to find my rights in this world. With my friends, I felt like we had strength and we were stronger.

Webb: It was a similar story for me. Of course, my family, who have been very supportive and very loving, have always wanted to know what are you going to do, tell us in advance. We know the history of protesting and nonviolent action in this nation. I think it’s just so interesting that pattern continues to this day. I just feel so supported and strengthened when I’m around people my age who are fighting for what’s right. We’re also getting in trouble, but it’s the kind of trouble that’s good trouble, as John Lewis talked about.

Geer: That’s right.

Webb: There’s definitely been push back from some of my friends who have different views or maybe from even family members who have different views of what it means to go about things in a different way, and of course, from the larger community across this state, but I just felt that what we’re doing is right.

We want to make things better, and we don’t want to have to live in fear because of the color of our skin or because of our beliefs. We definitely need a Black agenda. We need to unite with races, and we need to come together in this nation and understand the history and understand that we should all want better for our children, we should all want better for our families.

Q: What were your experiences with police?

Geer: What frightens me is the police that are not trained to deal with racists, who are sometimes racists themselves, and they do not know how to treat other racists. I think they need to have training for this (but) some of them I think that were hired, were hired for that reason, to show violence for the different races, and I don’t think that’s right.

Geer recounted how police stopped her teenage son and a friend in front of her home. The officer didn’t believe he lived there, she said.

He told her son “don’t put your hands in your pockets, because I might have to do something,” she said. Geer challenged the officer, who told her someone had reported people making noise in the street.

The next day, Geer and her husband went to the police department and threatened action. The chief brought the officer to their home and told him to apologize, she said. Her son’s friend accepted the officer’s apology.

Geer: My son said, “I am not going to accept your apology because if I’d have put my hands back in my pockets, you probably would have shot me right in front of my house.” That was true! And that was really bad.

Webb: What I have seen as I’ve gone out in the streets with my peers and with older generations and with people of all backgrounds has been horrifying.

Of course, there are some good police officers, but this system was designed from slave patrols, and so it’s hard for good people with good intentions to go into an ill-equipped system and do good.

From what I’ve seen, just last May being in downtown Raleigh, and being tear gassed and being with people that still suffer from lung damage and damage to their eyes from the gas that police sprayed just because we were marching on public streets, streets that our tax dollars go toward.

We were marching because we didn’t want any more of our people to be killed by the police, so for even a few police officers to act that way, to be antagonistic and to provoke — we saw all across the nation in Minneapolis and in Louisville that police were behaving like animals, and were treating protesters as less than human.

And so to me that’s unacceptable, and I hope that my generation can work with those around us to really not only reimagine but transform policing so that we can really be protected when we go out in our communities, so that people that may be suffering from homelessness or mental illness or that may just live on the streets are not being attacked by those who are sworn to protect and serve us.

Q: What do you think about race relations and equality right now?

Geer: They have gotten some better, but a lot of things are hidden in the dark. Someone can walk up to me right and say I love you. You know what, you have to prove to me you love me. You have to prove to me that you care.

If I tell you that I love you, I mean that I love you. I will invite you into my home and let you know something about my culture so I can learn something about your culture, and we can treat each other with respect.

I might not agree with everything that you say. You might not agree with me (on) everything that I say. But at least we can respect each other.

Webb: I definitely agree with that. We need to treat others with respect.

I am not sure if Ms. Betty agrees with this or not, but I feel like people are covertly racist now and more hidden than they were in the ‘60s. We are not having Freedom Rides being bombed, and we are not having as many lynchings, but we are having acts of police brutality. We are having some of the same fights fought today that happened back then, and so it boils down to respect and treating each other fairly.

Geer: They do it politically. They do it behind closed doors.

This is why we need dialogue, to talk with each other. If I am doing something wrong, tell me what I am doing wrong. Tell me how I can improve. Don’t hate me for something that I don’t know I’m doing, but let’s talk this over. Find out what I need, find out what my community needs.

We can all learn from each other’s culture. We can always learn each other’s spirit, where we’re coming from. So you respect me, I will respect you, but don’t beat me in the head with a hammer because you think I’m wrong.

Webb: That’s right. It boils down to respect, and I firmly believe that our generation, this younger generation of people in the United States can be part of that change.

Geer: Yes, they can.

Webb: I believe our generation is different; we are able to have that dialogue. We are able to use social media. We are willing to talk with older generations and learn from the past, learn from our mistakes. And so I think it is so crucial that we treat each other with respect. Humans have more than 95% of the same DNA, so the fact that someone way back when decided to use race, and construct race as a factor of judging people, has proven to be detrimental, and we know it’s factually incorrect. So we have to get to a place where we value each other based on who we are as people, and we have to do that with love.

I think that race relations are still divisive today. For as much as politicians like to say you know we are not divided, I think we are. The dialogue is going to bring us together, and if we hold each other accountable, that’s how we unify.

As the conversation ended, Webb asked Geer for her advice.

Webb: When we get bogged down and seem to run into a wall, what encouragement would you give us when we think about the issues that we are fighting being the same 40, 50 years ago? What would you say to our generation to keep us going?

Geer: Keep on moving, and keep moving with love, just like you are doing right now.